by PK Jarju
Baba Galleh Jallow, former Daily Observer editor-in-chief and CEO of the now closed Independent Newspaper, has described the killing of Deyda Hydara as an act of terrorism.
Deyda Hydara, founder and managing editor of The Point Newspaper was murdered by unknown gun men on December 16, 2004, while on his way home.
Speaking to PK Jarju on the eve of the fourth anniversary of Mr Hydara's death, Mr Jallow said: "I think Deyda was killed because he was critical of the Jammeh regime. I think he was killed because he constituted an unbearable voice of truth to people who cannot bear the sound of truth. I think he was killed as a warning to others that they would be risking their lives if they dared to be too critical of the government. I think it is absurd to imagine that the government is doing anything to catch Deyda’s killers. I think the government killed Deyda. How can the killer catch the killer?"
Mr Jallow added that it was simply unbelievable to think that Deyda Hydara could be so brutally murdered as he have always tempered his opinions with a noticeable degree of restraint and respect for whoever was the object of his critiques.
Below is the full text of Mr Jallow's interview.
PK Jarju: It’s been four years now since the brutal killing of Deyda Hydara. What do you make of the whole incident?
Baba Galleh: I think first of all, that Deyda’s killing was an act of terrorism. Those who killed Deyda were out to instill terror into the hearts of those who, like Deyda, dare to be critical of the powers that be. Secondly, the fact that no one has been arrested for the murder is indicative of a dismal lack of law and order in The Gambia.
Are you saying that the Gambia is an anarchic state?
Baba Galleh: I wouldn’t call it a state of anarchy because that would imply saying there is no government in The Gambia. I am saying that there is dismal lack of respect for the rule of law and order in The Gambia. Deyda’s killing is just one of several cases that remain unsolved or for which no one has been arrested. There are the cases of Ousman Koro Ceesay, of Almamo Manneh, of the student victims of April 2000, of the Radio 1FM and The Independent arson attacks, of Daba Marena and his co-prisoners, and more recently, of the foreign nationals from Ghana and other countries. I find it ironic that a state that constantly brags about its determination to curb criminality and insecurity has not been able to arrest those who committed any of these criminal acts. The only answer –to my mind – is that the state itself committed the crimes.
Why do you think Deyda was killed?
Baba Galleh: I think Deyda was killed because he was critical of the Jammeh regime. I think he was killed because he constituted an unbearable voice of truth to people who cannot bear the sound of truth. I think he was killed as a warning to others that they would be risking their lives if they dared to be too critical of the government.
Do you think the government is doing enough to catch Deyda's killer?
Baba Galleh: I think it is absurd to imagine that the government is doing anything to catch Deyda’s killers. I think the government killed Deyda. How can the killer catch the killer?
Do you have any prove to back your claims that Deyda was murdered by the state?
Baba Galleh: I have reason to think – and that’s the word I use – that Deyda was murdered by the government. Has Jammeh not repeatedly threatened to send his critics six feet deep? Deyda himself had reported receiving death threats he had reason to believe came from the government. Then there are the previous unsolved murder cases mentioned above. Moreover, the fact that no one has been arrested for the murder is all the more reason to believe that he was killed by the state. Or is the state telling us that it is powerless to stop murders in the country?
So are you saying that Jammeh was lying to the Gambian people when he said on GRTS that he does not believe in killing people?
Baba Galleh: If Jammeh did not believe in killing people, why on earth did he join the military? I think one has to believe in the possibility of killing people before enlisting as a soldier, because that’s exactly what soldiers are trained to do – kill people when considered necessary. So that was just one of Jammeh’s many outbursts of pre-thinking talk. Or is he saying that people become soldiers in order to kill wild animals only? Or that people killed by soldiers are less than human beings?
Do you think there is a cover up in the investigations?
Baba Galleh I think there are no investigations to cover up in the first place. That is my strong conviction.
What is your response then to the dossier issued on June 5, 2005 by the department of state for the Interior on the death of Deyda?
Baba Galleh: I think that dossier was meant as a means of closing the case, of claiming that investigations had been conducted and the findings made public. I think it was a fake dossier, a decoy to deflect public attention and interest in the case. And it failed.
What type of person was Deyda?
Baba Galleh: I knew Deyda to be a very kind-hearted and very principled and courageous man. He never hesitated to speak his mind and was a good listener.
What was your initial reaction when you heard the news that Deyda was murdered?
Baba Galleh: I was shocked, like all right-thinking Gambians. To think that Deyda could be so brutally murdered was simply unbelievable. After all, he always tempered his opinions with a noticeable degree of restraint and respect for whoever was the object of his critiques.
Deyda’s killing was among a string of attacks against the private press including The Independent. In your mind, what do you think was the motive?
Baba Galleh: The motive for press censorship is always fear of the truth, fear of public enlightenment, fear of the people’s power that could grow out of being politically informed. It is always an act of cowardice by irresponsible and paranoid regimes that seek to keep the people in a perpetual state of darkness and passive subjugation.
Government investigations into the arson attacks on The Independent has not yield any positive result. Do you think that will be the same with Deyda’s case?
Baba Galleh: As I said above, it is absurd to think that the government will carry out any serious investigations into any crimes of a political nature because the same government is responsible for committing those very crimes. How can the thief catch the thief? People should stop asking the government to investigate these crimes. It is just so absurd.
So instead what should people do when they cannot trust their government?
Baba Galleh: It depends on what they can do or feel they can do. They can try to remove the government from power, they can criticize the government, they can accuse the government of being untrustworthy, they can withdraw their support. It all depends on just what is possible for them to do and what they see themselves as capable of doing in the circumstances. It also depends on whether they want to do anything than sit by and watch.
Do you think the failure to apprehend Deyda’s killers and arsonist of The Independent exposes the government’s weaknesses in providing a safe and secure environment for media practitioners in the country?
Baba Galleh: No. I think the government is responsible for these crimes and that is why no one has been apprehended. I don’t think that the government is interested in providing a safe and secure environment for media practitioners in the country, unless, of course, if they are of the boot-licking sort.
President Jammeh has often accused Gambian journalists and online contributors abroad of writing false stories to tarnish his image and the Gambia’s. What’s your reaction to that?
Baba Galleh: President Jammeh has no moral right to accuse any journalist of anything. If he has the audacity to close media houses without observing the due process of law, of having people arrested and indefinitely locked up without any charges, what right does he have to blame anyone for tarnishing his image? He is tarnishing his own image. What journalists report is what’s taking place or what they believe is taking place. And if any journalist reports the untruth, it is for the law to deal with them, not the president. The president is neither the state nor the law. Jammeh thinks he loves The Gambia more than anyone else but that is simply a manifestation of his extreme delusion. All Gambians love The Gambia and being president does not make anyone love their country more than anyone else. So he should quit saying such nonsense.
What do you make of the closure of The Independent?
Baba Galleh: The closure of The Independent was an act of naked criminal injustice. We know that the state has the potential authority to close down a media outlet. But the process of closure has to proceed according to the due process of law. To simply wake up one fine day and use armed men to close a private media outlet and then turn around and brag about it as Jammeh did, is further evidence of his unsuitability for the position of head of state.
Do you have any plans to challenge its closure in the courts?
Baba Galleh: No. I will not give the regime any modicum of credibility by challenging its own crimes in its own courts. I believe that the courts are powerless to do anything in cases like The Independent’s in today’s Gambia. The Independent was closed to stop the truth from being told. But the truth is still being told. So I would challenge the state to eat The Independent if they can. Let them erase the memory of the paper if they can. Let them go back to June 1999 when the paper started and confiscate and burn all the issues ever published. If they do that, I’ll grant them victory. Otherwise, I will maintain that they are mere cowards and bullies who can deny hundreds of people their daily bread just to make one man feel comfortable in his bed of lies...
Are you saying Jammeh does not have the interests of the Gambian people at heart?
Baba Galleh: I am saying that he places his own personal interests above the interests of the Gambian people.
Jammeh once told GRTS that you begged him to drop libel charges against you for publishing a story in December 1999 captioned New wife for Jammeh. Is that true?
Baba Galleh: If he said I did, it was totally untrue. I have never begged Jammeh to drop any charges against me and I have never asked anyone to do so on my behalf. And as a point of correction for you, our caption for that story had a question mark after it. It read “New Wife for Jammeh?” rather than “New Wife for Jammeh.” That’s a significant difference. Jammeh has this bad habit of talking without thinking. He seems to imagine that because he is the president, he can say anything that crosses his mind and so often says things that are totally untrue or nonsensical.
How do you see the current atmosphere in which Gambian journalists are operating?
Baba Galleh: I think on the home front, the atmosphere is clearly difficult. Journalists working for privately owned media houses now have to watch their words or else… On the other hand, there are the online media, which are doing a great job of keeping the flame of free speech burning without any immediate threats to their persons or properties.
They have to watch their words or else what?
Baba Galleh: Or else face the consequences.
As far as freedom of expression is concerned, would you classify Jammeh as an enemy of free speech?
Baba Galleh: Jammeh is not only an enemy of free speech; he is an enemy of free thought, and therefore an enemy of viable progress for our country.
The killing of Deyda and other attacks on the media is triggering a mass exodus of journalists from the Gambia. Don’t you think that is what the government wants?
Baba Galleh: I can say for certain that what they want is “no criticism.”
Jammeh has often claimed that he is hard on the press in order to save the Gambia from being in flames like Sierra Leone. How will you react to that?
Baba Galleh: Well the press says exactly the same thing, that it is hard on the government to save The Gambia from sliding into a violent conflict situation. Sit-tight despotism and irresponsible governance, violations of people’s rights, disregard for the rule of law – these are some of the key reasons for the outbreak of conflict in Sierra Leone and elsewhere in Africa. So the press tries to warn the government of the dangers of getting engaged in these things. In any case, Jammeh has no authority to be hard on the press. That should be the role of the law enforcement agencies following the due process of law.
Why are you a critic of the Jammeh regime?
Baba Galleh: I am a critic of the Jammeh regime for many numbers of reasons. First among these is the fact that he betrayed the Gambian people; he lied to us; he had promised to spend only two years in power and return to barracks. He broke that promise with blatant impunity. He also broke his promise to put term limits in the constitution. He now claims ownership of our country and has become a sit-tight despot. He is intolerant of any form of dissent and denies Gambians the right to know and the right to peaceful change of leadership. He has no respect for constitutional provisions or for the rule of law. I guess if PK Jarju was president and behaved this way I would be his critic too.
So you mean the Gambia is colonised by Jammeh?
Baba Galleh: I mean Jammeh is holding The Gambian people hostage. We have records of him saying after the coup that no president will ever be allowed to spend more than ten years in power. That “in fact, ten years is too much.” Those are his exact words. We have records of him saying that he will return to barracks after a transition period of two years. He set up the National Consultative Committee to find out just how long people wanted the AFPRC to stay in power. The national consensus was two years. A constitutional review committee he set up recommended, and he publicly accepted, the idea of putting two five-year term limits for the president. Why did he fail to do all these things? Can he not legitimately be accused of being selfish and greedy for power and self-aggrandizement at the expense of the Gambian people? Is he waiting for another group of soldiers to come by and kick him out of power? Would such a thing not hurt the Gambian people?
Don’t you think that the existence of a national assembly and judiciary means that we are a democratic country?
Baba Galleh: Absolutely not. When the national assembly and judiciary are emasculated and turned into the personal properties and political instruments of the president, as ours clearly are, we cannot call that country a- democracy. The level of separation of powers, checks and balances between the three arms of government needed for a functional democracy are clearly not present in The Gambia. Does Jammeh not hire and fire judges and magistrates at will? Have we not had at least thirteen justice ministers in fourteen years of Jammeh’s government? Does he not expel national assembly members at will? Has there been a single instance of a government-sponsored piece of legislation being opposed by a majority in the national assembly? Democracy requires much more than the existence of these institutions.
As a critic of the Jammeh regime, you were subjected to so many arrests and detentions. Did it ever come to a point where you wanted to quit the profession?
Baba Galleh: No. I was arrested and locked up several times. But I refused to be intimidated because I knew that those arresting me were the criminals, not me. For my safety I had to leave The Gambia to pursue higher education in the United States. But I continue to write and to speak my mind and to call for an end to Jammeh’s politics of impunity.
You are now separated from your family and friends as a result of your work. Do you have any regrets for being a journalist?
Baba Galleh: I have no regrets whatsoever. I would do it all over again, and even more, if I could.
Supporters of the Jammeh regime say your postings are always critical of the regime no matter what it does. How do you see such criticisms?
Baba Galleh: Well, I respect people’s right to criticize me and to disagree with my views and opinions. And they are welcome to do so anywhere, anytime. I think such criticisms are healthy. No one should claim infallibility or consider himself or herself to be above criticism. After all, we are trying to build a democratic political culture in The Gambia whose cardinal principle would be tolerance and respect for contrary opinions. So I welcome those criticisms and even encourage them. That’s the type of society we want – a society in which people can openly disagree and criticize. So, no hard feelings at all for my critics.
If you are to say anything positive about Jammeh what will it be?
Baba Galleh: Well, he is now a self-declared professor. I would say that’s so very positive.
If called on by Jammeh to serve The Gambia in any capacity, will you accept the call?
Baba Galleh: Absolutely not. If I did, I would be accepting to serve him, and not The Gambia. I will never be part of a dictatorial regime that has no respect for human dignity, constitutional provisions, and the rule of law.
Politically, where do you think the Gambia is heading to?
Baba Galleh: What the future holds is anybody’s guess. I know that what we have today is a dictatorship and dictatorships historically spell trouble for their countries.
Do you think Jammeh is responsible for Gambia’s problems?
Baba Galleh: He certainly is responsible for many of Gambia’s problems. I wouldn’t say he is responsible for all of Gambia’s problems because there are forces bigger than him at work within the international context.
Despite Gambia’s problems, Jammeh is still loved by the electorates. Why is that so?
Baba Galleh: Well, the answer to that question is far more complicated than can be satisfactorily answered in an interview of this nature. However, I would say that most people are not making the connection between their personal problems and the current government. Related to that is the nature of our political culture, our political habits of mind, how people see the government, what they understand to be the nature of government as an institution and the president as a leader of a twenty-first century society. I think what we can call the “mansa mentality” needs to be neutralized in the Gambian body politic before the majority of Gambians can start seeing the state for what it is and start making informed electoral choices.
As a former schoolmate of Jammeh, what advise do you have for him?
Baba Galleh: Since Jammeh purports to be such a good and God-fearing Muslim, I would advise him to fulfil his promises to the Gambian people. The Koran makes it categorically clear that people who break their promises are hypocrites and I would guess Jammeh knows the verse I’m referring to. I would also advise him to quit acts of injustice if he is indeed as pious as he would like us to believe. The Koran and Sunnah are very clear on the need for Muslims to act with justice and for the leader to dispense justice equitably among his people. So in short, I would say to him: Mr. Jammeh be a good Muslim.
Do you think the Gambian media is playing its role seriously?
Baba Galleh: Yes, I think some Gambian media outlets are playing their roles seriously. The online media community in Europe and the United States are doing great for our country. I think some Gambian media outlets are mere extensions of our good professor’s mouth, and are therefore not doing a good job at all.
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| Baba Galleh |
Baba Galleh Jallow, former Daily Observer editor-in-chief and CEO of the now closed Independent Newspaper, has described the killing of Deyda Hydara as an act of terrorism.
Deyda Hydara, founder and managing editor of The Point Newspaper was murdered by unknown gun men on December 16, 2004, while on his way home.
Speaking to PK Jarju on the eve of the fourth anniversary of Mr Hydara's death, Mr Jallow said: "I think Deyda was killed because he was critical of the Jammeh regime. I think he was killed because he constituted an unbearable voice of truth to people who cannot bear the sound of truth. I think he was killed as a warning to others that they would be risking their lives if they dared to be too critical of the government. I think it is absurd to imagine that the government is doing anything to catch Deyda’s killers. I think the government killed Deyda. How can the killer catch the killer?"
Mr Jallow added that it was simply unbelievable to think that Deyda Hydara could be so brutally murdered as he have always tempered his opinions with a noticeable degree of restraint and respect for whoever was the object of his critiques.
Below is the full text of Mr Jallow's interview.
PK Jarju: It’s been four years now since the brutal killing of Deyda Hydara. What do you make of the whole incident?
Baba Galleh: I think first of all, that Deyda’s killing was an act of terrorism. Those who killed Deyda were out to instill terror into the hearts of those who, like Deyda, dare to be critical of the powers that be. Secondly, the fact that no one has been arrested for the murder is indicative of a dismal lack of law and order in The Gambia.
Are you saying that the Gambia is an anarchic state?
Baba Galleh: I wouldn’t call it a state of anarchy because that would imply saying there is no government in The Gambia. I am saying that there is dismal lack of respect for the rule of law and order in The Gambia. Deyda’s killing is just one of several cases that remain unsolved or for which no one has been arrested. There are the cases of Ousman Koro Ceesay, of Almamo Manneh, of the student victims of April 2000, of the Radio 1FM and The Independent arson attacks, of Daba Marena and his co-prisoners, and more recently, of the foreign nationals from Ghana and other countries. I find it ironic that a state that constantly brags about its determination to curb criminality and insecurity has not been able to arrest those who committed any of these criminal acts. The only answer –to my mind – is that the state itself committed the crimes.
Why do you think Deyda was killed?
Baba Galleh: I think Deyda was killed because he was critical of the Jammeh regime. I think he was killed because he constituted an unbearable voice of truth to people who cannot bear the sound of truth. I think he was killed as a warning to others that they would be risking their lives if they dared to be too critical of the government.
Do you think the government is doing enough to catch Deyda's killer?
Baba Galleh: I think it is absurd to imagine that the government is doing anything to catch Deyda’s killers. I think the government killed Deyda. How can the killer catch the killer?
Do you have any prove to back your claims that Deyda was murdered by the state?
Baba Galleh: I have reason to think – and that’s the word I use – that Deyda was murdered by the government. Has Jammeh not repeatedly threatened to send his critics six feet deep? Deyda himself had reported receiving death threats he had reason to believe came from the government. Then there are the previous unsolved murder cases mentioned above. Moreover, the fact that no one has been arrested for the murder is all the more reason to believe that he was killed by the state. Or is the state telling us that it is powerless to stop murders in the country?
So are you saying that Jammeh was lying to the Gambian people when he said on GRTS that he does not believe in killing people?
Baba Galleh: If Jammeh did not believe in killing people, why on earth did he join the military? I think one has to believe in the possibility of killing people before enlisting as a soldier, because that’s exactly what soldiers are trained to do – kill people when considered necessary. So that was just one of Jammeh’s many outbursts of pre-thinking talk. Or is he saying that people become soldiers in order to kill wild animals only? Or that people killed by soldiers are less than human beings?
Do you think there is a cover up in the investigations?
Baba Galleh I think there are no investigations to cover up in the first place. That is my strong conviction.
What is your response then to the dossier issued on June 5, 2005 by the department of state for the Interior on the death of Deyda?
Baba Galleh: I think that dossier was meant as a means of closing the case, of claiming that investigations had been conducted and the findings made public. I think it was a fake dossier, a decoy to deflect public attention and interest in the case. And it failed.
What type of person was Deyda?
Baba Galleh: I knew Deyda to be a very kind-hearted and very principled and courageous man. He never hesitated to speak his mind and was a good listener.
What was your initial reaction when you heard the news that Deyda was murdered?
Baba Galleh: I was shocked, like all right-thinking Gambians. To think that Deyda could be so brutally murdered was simply unbelievable. After all, he always tempered his opinions with a noticeable degree of restraint and respect for whoever was the object of his critiques.
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| Deyda Hydara |
Baba Galleh: The motive for press censorship is always fear of the truth, fear of public enlightenment, fear of the people’s power that could grow out of being politically informed. It is always an act of cowardice by irresponsible and paranoid regimes that seek to keep the people in a perpetual state of darkness and passive subjugation.
Government investigations into the arson attacks on The Independent has not yield any positive result. Do you think that will be the same with Deyda’s case?
Baba Galleh: As I said above, it is absurd to think that the government will carry out any serious investigations into any crimes of a political nature because the same government is responsible for committing those very crimes. How can the thief catch the thief? People should stop asking the government to investigate these crimes. It is just so absurd.
So instead what should people do when they cannot trust their government?
Baba Galleh: It depends on what they can do or feel they can do. They can try to remove the government from power, they can criticize the government, they can accuse the government of being untrustworthy, they can withdraw their support. It all depends on just what is possible for them to do and what they see themselves as capable of doing in the circumstances. It also depends on whether they want to do anything than sit by and watch.
Do you think the failure to apprehend Deyda’s killers and arsonist of The Independent exposes the government’s weaknesses in providing a safe and secure environment for media practitioners in the country?
Baba Galleh: No. I think the government is responsible for these crimes and that is why no one has been apprehended. I don’t think that the government is interested in providing a safe and secure environment for media practitioners in the country, unless, of course, if they are of the boot-licking sort.
President Jammeh has often accused Gambian journalists and online contributors abroad of writing false stories to tarnish his image and the Gambia’s. What’s your reaction to that?
Baba Galleh: President Jammeh has no moral right to accuse any journalist of anything. If he has the audacity to close media houses without observing the due process of law, of having people arrested and indefinitely locked up without any charges, what right does he have to blame anyone for tarnishing his image? He is tarnishing his own image. What journalists report is what’s taking place or what they believe is taking place. And if any journalist reports the untruth, it is for the law to deal with them, not the president. The president is neither the state nor the law. Jammeh thinks he loves The Gambia more than anyone else but that is simply a manifestation of his extreme delusion. All Gambians love The Gambia and being president does not make anyone love their country more than anyone else. So he should quit saying such nonsense.
What do you make of the closure of The Independent?
Baba Galleh: The closure of The Independent was an act of naked criminal injustice. We know that the state has the potential authority to close down a media outlet. But the process of closure has to proceed according to the due process of law. To simply wake up one fine day and use armed men to close a private media outlet and then turn around and brag about it as Jammeh did, is further evidence of his unsuitability for the position of head of state.
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| The burnt printing press of The Independent |
Baba Galleh: No. I will not give the regime any modicum of credibility by challenging its own crimes in its own courts. I believe that the courts are powerless to do anything in cases like The Independent’s in today’s Gambia. The Independent was closed to stop the truth from being told. But the truth is still being told. So I would challenge the state to eat The Independent if they can. Let them erase the memory of the paper if they can. Let them go back to June 1999 when the paper started and confiscate and burn all the issues ever published. If they do that, I’ll grant them victory. Otherwise, I will maintain that they are mere cowards and bullies who can deny hundreds of people their daily bread just to make one man feel comfortable in his bed of lies...
Are you saying Jammeh does not have the interests of the Gambian people at heart?
Baba Galleh: I am saying that he places his own personal interests above the interests of the Gambian people.
Jammeh once told GRTS that you begged him to drop libel charges against you for publishing a story in December 1999 captioned New wife for Jammeh. Is that true?
Baba Galleh: If he said I did, it was totally untrue. I have never begged Jammeh to drop any charges against me and I have never asked anyone to do so on my behalf. And as a point of correction for you, our caption for that story had a question mark after it. It read “New Wife for Jammeh?” rather than “New Wife for Jammeh.” That’s a significant difference. Jammeh has this bad habit of talking without thinking. He seems to imagine that because he is the president, he can say anything that crosses his mind and so often says things that are totally untrue or nonsensical.
How do you see the current atmosphere in which Gambian journalists are operating?
Baba Galleh: I think on the home front, the atmosphere is clearly difficult. Journalists working for privately owned media houses now have to watch their words or else… On the other hand, there are the online media, which are doing a great job of keeping the flame of free speech burning without any immediate threats to their persons or properties.
They have to watch their words or else what?
Baba Galleh: Or else face the consequences.
As far as freedom of expression is concerned, would you classify Jammeh as an enemy of free speech?
Baba Galleh: Jammeh is not only an enemy of free speech; he is an enemy of free thought, and therefore an enemy of viable progress for our country.
The killing of Deyda and other attacks on the media is triggering a mass exodus of journalists from the Gambia. Don’t you think that is what the government wants?
Baba Galleh: I can say for certain that what they want is “no criticism.”
Jammeh has often claimed that he is hard on the press in order to save the Gambia from being in flames like Sierra Leone. How will you react to that?
Baba Galleh: Well the press says exactly the same thing, that it is hard on the government to save The Gambia from sliding into a violent conflict situation. Sit-tight despotism and irresponsible governance, violations of people’s rights, disregard for the rule of law – these are some of the key reasons for the outbreak of conflict in Sierra Leone and elsewhere in Africa. So the press tries to warn the government of the dangers of getting engaged in these things. In any case, Jammeh has no authority to be hard on the press. That should be the role of the law enforcement agencies following the due process of law.
Why are you a critic of the Jammeh regime?
Baba Galleh: I am a critic of the Jammeh regime for many numbers of reasons. First among these is the fact that he betrayed the Gambian people; he lied to us; he had promised to spend only two years in power and return to barracks. He broke that promise with blatant impunity. He also broke his promise to put term limits in the constitution. He now claims ownership of our country and has become a sit-tight despot. He is intolerant of any form of dissent and denies Gambians the right to know and the right to peaceful change of leadership. He has no respect for constitutional provisions or for the rule of law. I guess if PK Jarju was president and behaved this way I would be his critic too.
So you mean the Gambia is colonised by Jammeh?
Baba Galleh: I mean Jammeh is holding The Gambian people hostage. We have records of him saying after the coup that no president will ever be allowed to spend more than ten years in power. That “in fact, ten years is too much.” Those are his exact words. We have records of him saying that he will return to barracks after a transition period of two years. He set up the National Consultative Committee to find out just how long people wanted the AFPRC to stay in power. The national consensus was two years. A constitutional review committee he set up recommended, and he publicly accepted, the idea of putting two five-year term limits for the president. Why did he fail to do all these things? Can he not legitimately be accused of being selfish and greedy for power and self-aggrandizement at the expense of the Gambian people? Is he waiting for another group of soldiers to come by and kick him out of power? Would such a thing not hurt the Gambian people?
Don’t you think that the existence of a national assembly and judiciary means that we are a democratic country?
Baba Galleh: Absolutely not. When the national assembly and judiciary are emasculated and turned into the personal properties and political instruments of the president, as ours clearly are, we cannot call that country a- democracy. The level of separation of powers, checks and balances between the three arms of government needed for a functional democracy are clearly not present in The Gambia. Does Jammeh not hire and fire judges and magistrates at will? Have we not had at least thirteen justice ministers in fourteen years of Jammeh’s government? Does he not expel national assembly members at will? Has there been a single instance of a government-sponsored piece of legislation being opposed by a majority in the national assembly? Democracy requires much more than the existence of these institutions.
As a critic of the Jammeh regime, you were subjected to so many arrests and detentions. Did it ever come to a point where you wanted to quit the profession?
Baba Galleh: No. I was arrested and locked up several times. But I refused to be intimidated because I knew that those arresting me were the criminals, not me. For my safety I had to leave The Gambia to pursue higher education in the United States. But I continue to write and to speak my mind and to call for an end to Jammeh’s politics of impunity.
You are now separated from your family and friends as a result of your work. Do you have any regrets for being a journalist?
Baba Galleh: I have no regrets whatsoever. I would do it all over again, and even more, if I could.
Supporters of the Jammeh regime say your postings are always critical of the regime no matter what it does. How do you see such criticisms?
Baba Galleh: Well, I respect people’s right to criticize me and to disagree with my views and opinions. And they are welcome to do so anywhere, anytime. I think such criticisms are healthy. No one should claim infallibility or consider himself or herself to be above criticism. After all, we are trying to build a democratic political culture in The Gambia whose cardinal principle would be tolerance and respect for contrary opinions. So I welcome those criticisms and even encourage them. That’s the type of society we want – a society in which people can openly disagree and criticize. So, no hard feelings at all for my critics.
If you are to say anything positive about Jammeh what will it be?
Baba Galleh: Well, he is now a self-declared professor. I would say that’s so very positive.
If called on by Jammeh to serve The Gambia in any capacity, will you accept the call?
Baba Galleh: Absolutely not. If I did, I would be accepting to serve him, and not The Gambia. I will never be part of a dictatorial regime that has no respect for human dignity, constitutional provisions, and the rule of law.
Politically, where do you think the Gambia is heading to?
Baba Galleh: What the future holds is anybody’s guess. I know that what we have today is a dictatorship and dictatorships historically spell trouble for their countries.
Do you think Jammeh is responsible for Gambia’s problems?
Baba Galleh: He certainly is responsible for many of Gambia’s problems. I wouldn’t say he is responsible for all of Gambia’s problems because there are forces bigger than him at work within the international context.
Despite Gambia’s problems, Jammeh is still loved by the electorates. Why is that so?
Baba Galleh: Well, the answer to that question is far more complicated than can be satisfactorily answered in an interview of this nature. However, I would say that most people are not making the connection between their personal problems and the current government. Related to that is the nature of our political culture, our political habits of mind, how people see the government, what they understand to be the nature of government as an institution and the president as a leader of a twenty-first century society. I think what we can call the “mansa mentality” needs to be neutralized in the Gambian body politic before the majority of Gambians can start seeing the state for what it is and start making informed electoral choices.
As a former schoolmate of Jammeh, what advise do you have for him?
Baba Galleh: Since Jammeh purports to be such a good and God-fearing Muslim, I would advise him to fulfil his promises to the Gambian people. The Koran makes it categorically clear that people who break their promises are hypocrites and I would guess Jammeh knows the verse I’m referring to. I would also advise him to quit acts of injustice if he is indeed as pious as he would like us to believe. The Koran and Sunnah are very clear on the need for Muslims to act with justice and for the leader to dispense justice equitably among his people. So in short, I would say to him: Mr. Jammeh be a good Muslim.
Do you think the Gambian media is playing its role seriously?
Baba Galleh: Yes, I think some Gambian media outlets are playing their roles seriously. The online media community in Europe and the United States are doing great for our country. I think some Gambian media outlets are mere extensions of our good professor’s mouth, and are therefore not doing a good job at all.
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